July 1, 2020

*** This hand was suggested by thelawnet
86-91*  ?
36%
33%
26%
1%
1%
0%
0%
Total votes: 211
JQT
4143 votes

Joined: October 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:02 AM
If we could somehow get close to a Dozen Holes further down that board, we might become Next Dealer at or beyond Hole 96, which seems a lofty goal.

Normally, Two PAIRS is not Too Terrible, but the nature of Keep (4 4 6 6) is either "hit or miss" and it strongly depends upon a 5 Card Cut.

Toss (2 6) would still leave us with Four Points assured, but it responds well to 50% more Cuts, including a 5 card, only instead of Twenty-Four Points, we would only have Sixteen Points. But that meets our objective!

Toss (2 6) should be no more dangerous than Toss (2 7), and yet we get significant help from not just a 5 Card Cut, but a 4 Card Cut as well. And we also avoid the risky Toss (4 4).

Keep (2 6 6 7) is tempting, but it appears to me that it's tempting fate in a perilous position. Therefore, let's try Toss (2 6) and lead a 4 Card as if it were the only one we had!
thelawnet
262 votes

Joined: January 2020

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:26 AM
Today toss 44 gives us the strongest hand, but dealer is perilously close to 121 next deal if we boost his crib - consider 109 Vs 107 for example, and it's clear we need to exercise care.

In fact what we need to do is to keep our opponent to around 26 points in this deal and the next, because if he were to reach say 28, then he'd likely peg out.

Meanwhile we need 35 from two deals as pone and 1 and as dealer.

That's not too hard at all, if we don't help dealer and he doesn't get lucky !

27 and 26 are very similar tosses in dealer's crib, but we are looking for 8+ points here:

4466
24 with 5 (4)
8 with A469 (12)
6 with 37 (7)
4 with 28tjqk (23)

4467
16 with 5 (4)
12 with 4 (2)
9 with 8 (4)
8 with 6 (2)
6 with a279 (14)
4 with 3tjqk (20)

It's not easy to choose between the distributions , but for example with 5 we consider 110+ Vs 102+. These seem like useful points, in that while our opponent has first take next time, this at least substantially reduces the chance of him pegging out the following deal.

Anyway, having chosen the jackpot cards, and cut the jackpot, there's now nothing to do but peg as defensively as possible, because we cannot hope to peg 11 in two deals.

After leading the 4 we have a bit of a conundrum ! If dealer pairs it, then he can peg 14 to our 6 and maybe even go out this time. However let's hope not, and just maybe we even score 12-3 with our remaining 6s
Eolus619 says: First....challenging puzzle for me with my limited experience ..I spent some time on paper with a pegging sequence to get the dealer 14 pegging points...the only path I could figure was four 4s being played consecutively and then my 6 being paired ...is that correct? ...and / or is there another sequence I missed? Learning .......thanks
thelawnet says: 4-4-4-4 is 2 for the pair, 12 for the 4-for-a-kind
thelawnet says: As mentioned previously 44 is a decent pair to lead from as it's more likely than others to be matched, so in general it's good points for us as pone. Just that the 14 points more costly here than at 0-0, esp. When we made the jackpot cut.
Eolus619 says: Right!.....thanks
dec
6356 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:46 AM
My thought today is more minimal hit in the hand and pegging combined with a good chance at a low scoring crib. Nineteen cuts adds four or more to this keep. Then there is the six I was going to if only a little gain in the hand with the 6-5-4 pegging possibility . Early in the game if it is close I would do this keep most of the time. I would like to think they might have a ten/fifteen type of hand over cross the board. This hand has a lot more upside then being concerned about sixteen face cards available. Still leading the six after the cut, I suppose I'm into killer mode here. dec
Rosemarie44
2052 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:51 AM
I chose expected averages by tossing 4-4 to opponent. Could be a risky move based on previous comments. A lesson today?
dgergens
938 votes

Joined: January 2018

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:15 AM
I thought about keeping 4466 and gambling on 5. Wouldn't you know it, I would have hit the jackpot this time. There were a few more cuts that helped, plus the 5 still did well, if I held the 4467.
Andy (muesli64)
2223 votes

Joined: August 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:13 AM
2 - 6 best compromise as per JQT. Interesting cut lol
Eolus619
1340 votes

Joined: June 2020

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:50 AM
Whew...some challenging choices for a player with limited experience. Especially with the score..toss the 4-4, 2-7 or 4-7 were my choices. ..toss the 4-4 and cut cards 3,5,6,7,8,& 9 help my hand
james500 says: Hi Eolus, hope you're well. In addition to the ranks you identified in your post, cuts of an Ace or 2 also help your hand of 2-6-6-7.
mfetchCT425
1397 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:55 AM
Few more cuts helps us I think with this hold vs 4-4-6-6 and we toss the off-suited 2-6 which is less dangerous than 4-4 and I would say a bit less dangerous than suited 2-7. We have 16, so Will per defensively and lead from strength with one of my 4s.
mfetchCT425 says: Typo above: *will peg*
mfetchCT425 says: Also a little more pegging flexibility with this hand vs 4-4-6-6.
Jazzselke
2585 votes

Joined: March 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 6:41 AM
If dealer was at 95 or beyond I would hold 2667;tempted to do so here but will opt for 4467.
RubyTuesday
911 votes

Joined: January 2019

 
 
 
Wednesday 6:56 AM
I wishfully considered throwing 2 7 but decided on 2 6, because I thought that left me with more flexibility. Of course the other throw would have left me with points which may perhaps be a little more important.
wasa
3016 votes

Joined: November 2014

 
 
 
Wednesday 7:24 AM
First job is to not let my opponent go out with this hand-crib-hand. So not tossing the 4-4, as I would be very unhappy if opponent tossed 2-3 or 3-5, or 5-6 or 7-7 or other combos that as dealer I'd want to toss in my crib.
Eolus619 says: The comment about “ first job” is An important point to learn for someone like me ..thanks for making the point
SallyAnn3
908 votes

Joined: March 2020

Wednesday 9:37 AM
Decision made due to negative delta. Everything else was too risky right about now!

SallyAnn3 says: 4-4-6-6- hold. Ughh....the sign in thing is driving me nuts. I didn't stop to read comments along the way first!
james500
3921 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Wednesday 11:59 AM
The trouble with not logging in until the evening, is that all the good points have already been made and there's nothing left to add. 2-6 from me.
horus93
1281 votes

Joined: December 2017

 
 
 
Wednesday 12:50 PM
Offense at this spot, shocked to be alone.
Ras2829 says: Hi horus93: Nothing to defend here - n/d neeeds 9 minimum to reach 4th street CPZ (95-99) for upcoming deal and dealer is short by 4 holes of being there. So your choice of offense is absoluely correct. Choosing offense, the 4-4 average of 6.00 to dealer crib makes 4-4-6-7 the better choice in terms of combined value (pegs + potential hand score minus potential crib value). Won't even try to guess what the differences might be in win/loss %. Will defer to HalscribCLXon what those figures might be.
Rosemarie44 says: Hi: you are not all alone. What about me?
Coeurdelion
5592 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:50 PM
I think it's between 2-6-6-7 (4-4), 4-4-6-7 (2-6) and 4-4-6-6 (2-7):

2-6-6-7: 6pts - 6½pts (Schell: 6.53) = -½pt

4-4-6-7: 4pts - 5pts (Schell: 4.97) = -1pt

4-4-6-6: 4pts - 5pts (Schell: 4.97) = -1pt

Potential:

2-6-6-7: Improves with AAAA, 222, 3333, 5555, 66, 777, 8888, 9999 = 28 cuts = 28/46 = 60.9% up to 10/12/14pts with 222, 5555, 66, 777, 8888, 9999 = 20 cuts.

4-4-6-7: Improves with AAAA, 222, 44, 5555, 66, 777, 8888, 9999 = 26 cuts = 26/46 = 56.5% up to 8/9/12/16pts with 44, 5555, 66, 777, 8888 = 15 cuts.

4-4-6-6: Improves with AAAA, 3333, 44, 5555, 66, 777, 9999 = 23 cuts = 23/46 = 50.0% up to 8/24pts with AAAA, 44, 5555, 66, 9999 = 12 cuts.

Position:

Dealer is 5pts short of fourth street positional hole while we need the average 10pts to reach it for next deal. I'll play Defensively.

Pegging:

Playing Defensively I think 4-4-6-6 will peg best but if we need to peg Offense 2-6-6-7 will be advantageous.

Summary:

2-6-6-7 has the lowest starting value by ½pt but has the most cuts for improvement and 20 cuts for 10-14pts. It also will peg well if we need to play Offense. So I'll throw the 4-4.
HalscribCLX
5315 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:59 PM
At 86-91* playing a Defense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

_______________Dlr's
Defense___Hand_Pegs___Crib____Total_____W2 %___W3 %
2-6-6-7___8.96+(-3.17)+(-6.08)=(-0.29)___9.4____37.8
4-4-6S-7__6.65+(-2.59)+(-4.35)=(-0.29)___6.6____33.0
4-4-6-6___7.09+(-2.98)+(-4.42)=(-0.31)__10.5____32.6

Defense_______L2 %____L3 %
2-6-6-7________27.9____53.3
4-4-6S-7_______20.0____56.7
4-4-6-6________19.5____55.6

2-6-6-7 is equal to 4-4-6S-7 for expected averages but 2-6-6-7 is significantly best for Win %s and although it isn't lowest for Loss %s I'll select 4-4 to discard.

After the 5 cut I'll lead the 7 and play Optimally:

Lead______________Net Pegging Pts._____Loss %
6______________________(-1.50)__________0.5
2______________________(-1.60)__________0.3
7______________________(-1.68)__________0.2

The 6 is best for Net Pegging Points but the 7 lead has the lowest chance of Losing by a very small margin.
Eolus619 says: If you would ..Please clarify meaning of W2%..W3%....L2%....L3% Thanks
JQT says: I believe that the computer program calculates the odds of winning and/or losing in "N" number of deals, and when posting its results, it selects and displays here a few of the most likely number of deals in which the current game might conclude. And so for example, in today's puzzle, it looks at the likelihood of winning/losing in both the next Two Deals and also over the course of the following Three Deals. Of course, it could take less (or fewer) number of deals for the game to conclude, so don't expect those numbers to add up to 100%, because some other number of deals could occur to conclude the game. These percentages take on a much greater importance as a game nears completion, or sometimes when one or both players are near a critical position which could then affect the outcome of the game. Otherwise, the Expected Averages will usually dictate how the program decides upon how to proceed. - j q t -
thelawnet says: it's the chance you win or lose in that number of games. So 2667 is 91.1% to win or lose in 3 games, 4467 is 89.7%, and 4466 is 88.2%. That means that the numbers don't actually prove which cards are most likely to win. If there's only around a 90% chance for this to end in 3 games (2 more after this one), then we'd be dealing in the 4th. If we were close enough to 121, we'd peg out. But as 2667 is ahead on W % for the 3 deals that have been analyses, it does seem it's probably the best hand. Note that the 'pegs' are a little misleading as they don't quote our pegs. If we're chosing the more offensive 2667 because it scores more points, then it probably makes a little more sense to show net pegs, as it's not obvious whether 2667 also SCORES more pegs, even though it definitely concedes more. Finally the net pegging points I'm not completely sure if they make sense, in that after the 5 cut it might be that we are winning (?), but if we are not, then a 0.5% chance of losing isn't necessarily a problem, in that we had a >50% chance of losing, so a 1 in 300 or so extra chance of losing here doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
thelawnet says: I believe the numbers are cumulative, so W3 is W in 1, 2, or 3 games. Does count W1, W2, but doesn't count W4 or more.
Eolus619 says: Well I appreciate the feedback..NOT criticizing ...but two VERY knowledgeable players say ......hands or games Left ..so I will think about this from both perspectives
Ras2829
5151 votes

Joined: November 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 10:45 PM
Needing 9 holes to deal from 4th Street CPZ am choosing an optimal strategy out of the gate and into the pegging. Will lead a four, if paired, will take the 15-2 rather than the triple. After seeing the five on the deck, should know that I have 16 points in hand, take the reasonably safe pegs, skip those which entail risk. The five cut does not excite me as dealer counts 8 cards with it. Did I see any X-pointers in my hand? The deal is comprised of 12 cards and there are cards of 13 ranks. So it is likely dealer got more than a fair share of X-pointers. The 2-6 in the crib just might limit the crib to four points with the five on the deck. RAS will sigh in relief if dealer does not lay down a double run of X-pointers. If dealer gets the average of 16 (pegs, hand and crib scores), will be at hole 107. That's quite aways out and the chance of opponent winning on the next deal becomes one of six.
thelawnet says: the expected number of Xs in a hand is 1.85. After seeing none in 7 cards, that increases to 2.13. Only 0.3 of a card, but obviously the chances of a JQK double run or similar will be a decent amount higher.