March 25, 2020

*** This hand was suggested by thelawnet
37-43*  ?
53%
34%
10%
0%
0%
Total votes: 216
mrob2199
1407 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:28 AM
A-4-5-6 is the best pegging hand in cribbage a pone can hold-lead the A and it’s possible we peg 4-6 points
james500 says: Hi Rob, hope you're well. Excuse my ignorance, but why wouldn't you lead the 4 from the 4-A-6 combo? What advantage does the lead of an Ace offer?
mrob2199 says: James,the ace lead disguises your hand much more than a 4-if you are the dealer and pone leads a 4,what cards would you choose to play? I would definitely play a 9 first-and then possibly an 8-those 2 plays would prevent me from pegging anything ,while if they are played on my ace lead,they will both provide me with an initial 15
SallyAnn3 says: Aggreed. Everytime...ace instead of face. :) 4-3
Ras2829 says: Ah yes- lead the Ace when you have 4-5-6 in sequence. Players love to make the count 11, n/d drop the 4 for 15-2 which forces a five off the play, count advances to 25, n/d scores 31-2 with the 6, and is still holding the five to score a probable 15-2 on the next lead. As mrob2199 points out this is the best pegging hand in cribbage for non-dealer and 2-3-4-6 is a close second. There are few circumstances in which non-dealer has a pegging edge over the dealer. Look for opportunities to retain these two hands just mentioned. If you are looking for them as non-dealer, they are frequently available.
cwed says: Rob and Ras: I too love this hand as pone, but I have a question: what are you willing to sacrifice to hold it? Obviously you are not going to break a double run in 4-5-6, but would you toss toss 2-3, 8-8, Q-Q, etc.? It is so powerful a pegging hand that I suspect some sacrifice is acceptable, but what are your limits?
mrob2199 says: Dave in the right circumstances I will hold or discard any combination,but in general I would almost never throw 2-3 off to hold A456-the pair of eights or queens would be more palatable but I would have to gauge the position before doing so
Ras2829 says: Hi cwed: Would not toss two points to opponent crib to retain A-4-5-6. So often, you can make a low scoring discard though (10-K, 9-Q, 8-K, 7-K, ad infinitum), minimize crib score and gain the pegging edge with this lovely A-4-5-6. Tossing two points on the other side of the board minimizes the potential pegging gain. Even low scoring pairs (K-K or Q-Q)average nearly 5.5 on the other side of the board. In such cases toss A-Q or A-K.
cwed says: Thanks guys for the feedback. Very helpful.
dec
6327 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:17 AM
I am glad you were on first. A former club member you might have heard of him Dave S. advise on using type this of hand as non dealer. I have used this one now often. I just was not sure in these positions it was worth giving up a point with a potential sixteen hand to do it this way. But I feel more confident now. Ace lead? dec
SallyAnn3 says: Dave S is a very, very good player, like you. Would love to watch you play each other. :)
Andy (muesli64)
2221 votes

Joined: August 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:31 AM
My usual throw here. 2 - K.
JQT
4136 votes

Joined: October 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:32 AM
Toss (A 2) is too risky, and the FLUSH is a total red herring, so it's Toss (2 K) today.

The Keep (A 4 5 6) Hand is often good for a Pegging 'Hat Trick' after we lead our Ace, as this is one of the finest Cribbage Pegging Hands on *either* side of the board.
thelawnet says: I guess I should have made it a245 suited, k6 offsuit, to make the flush a bit more appealing...
mfetchCT425
1382 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:37 AM
Along with 2-3-4-6 (lead the 3), this is one of the best pegging hands for pone in the deck. Lead the ace with this hand and very often you will outpeg the dealer.
SallyAnn3 says: Would love to play you on ecribbage sometime.
james500
3895 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:45 AM
Looks like today will be a learning opportunity for me.
Rosemarie44
2051 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 6:14 AM
Looks like I'm with you in class, James500. I like starting with 7 points and a chance for 16.
Rosemarie44 says: Ras expiains how dealer drops 2-3 in own crib. Of course A-2 from us makes a healthy crib for dealer! Everyone here who kept A-4-5-6 knew that. Didn't you?
Gougie00
5702 votes

Joined: March 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 6:48 AM
I'll chance the A-2 as well.
wasa
2991 votes

Joined: November 2014

 
 
 
Wednesday 6:57 AM
Interesting way to peg on the A-4-5-6. I think I prefer the sure two points but interested to see what HAL says
thelawnet says: You also have about a point penalty from the A2 toss compared to other options
cribbagepogo
3245 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Wednesday 7:42 AM
Love this combo, hate throwing A2. Too many big cribs with that combo.
JRCeagle78
1054 votes

Joined: June 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 9:40 AM
Other than first count in the end game, there are few instances where I would not keep this hand. By leading the Ace I should peg more than a 4 lead. If I lead the 4 or 6 the 5 card is left with only half of his supporting cast and the pone is more likely to play that card and get no points for it.
dgergens
938 votes

Joined: January 2018

 
 
 
Wednesday 11:19 AM
I don't have any qualms throwing A,2 to an opponent and have not had any bad experiences doing so. I'm surprised to read the comments on how dangerous A,2 is to give dealer.
Ras2829 says: Hi dgergens: The second most frequent discard made by dealer to own crib is 2-3. A-2 to own crib is weak discard as the trey is the last card of the small cards that you'll receive as a discard. Across the board the trey is the most frequent small card dropped into the crib. So A-2 on the other side of the board has nearly a full point higher average than for own crib. Besides that A-4-5-6 has the greater combined value when compared to 4-5-6-K. Try it - you'll like it!
dgergens says: Thank you Ras. It's these little gems of wisdom that keep me coming back for more. I guess I've just been lucky with this particular discard, or perhaps I just have a selective memory ;) .
Ras2829
5125 votes

Joined: November 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 11:21 AM
Am thinking off. off, once seeing the starter card knowing that I have 14 points and will deal from strong position (2nd street CPZ is 43-47), will shift down a notch and pursue an optimal pegging strategy. See my reply to mrob2199 above as to how RAS would approach the pegging. If choosing a defense pegging strategy, the 4 is the card to lead. No defense for me with opponent dealing at hole 43.
Ras2829 says: Not here though if choosing to peg defensively with this hand, lead the four, try to dump the 5 as second card played, putting max distance between the upper end of the hand and the bottom end. Then with an A-6 remaining, wiggle to stay away. Drop the Ace as third card played or lead it if that's how the pegging unfolds.
Coeurdelion
5574 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:37 PM
I think it's between 4-5-6-K (A-2) and A-4-5-6 (2-K):

4-5-6-K: 7pts - 5pts (Schell: 5.07) = 2pts

A-4-5-6: 5pts - 4½pts (Schell: 4.45) = ½pt

Potential:

4-5-6-K: Improves with AAA, 3333, 444, 555, 666, 7777, 9999 + 15xXs = 39 cuts = 39/46 = 84.8% up to 11/14/16pts with 444, 555, 666, KKK = 12 cuts.

A-4-5-6: Improves with AAA, 3333, 444, 555, 666, 7777, 8888, 9999 + 15xXs = 43 cuts = 43/46 = 93.5% up to 8/9/12/14pts with 3333, 444, 555, 666, 9999 + 15xXs = 32 cuts.

Position:

Dealer is 1pt short of the 44pt positional hole while we're well short of the 60pt we would like to be. However we only need 7pts to reach 44pts so I'll play Offense to try to exceed this position.

Pegging:

A-4-5-6 will peg better with lower cards and a 3-card magic eleven.

Summary:

4-5-6-K has a starting value 1½pts higher but A-4-5-6 has more cuts for improvement and more for a good/very good hand. The maximum is not as high as 16pts but still has the same cuts (555) for 14pts. It also should peg considerably better and the 2-K discard achieves the objective of holding dealer back while A-2 might work with the common 2-3 discard to our disadvantage. So all in all I'll throw 2-K.
Ras2829 says: Hi Coeurdelion: Again Find myself agreeing with your assessment to move down the board. Knowing that have 14 points, every hole I get down the board would seem to me to improve my chances to win this game with opponent at minimal position with this deal.
RubyTuesday
897 votes

Joined: January 2019

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:42 PM
I threw A 2, am very interested to see how many threw K 2.
dgergens says: See Ras' reply to me. I learned something today. Also, Hal shows the pegging for K,2 discard is a little more than a point better and the crib loss a 1/2 point less. I got schooled again.
HalscribCLX
5297 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:50 PM
At 37-43* playing an Offense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

______________Our
Offense__Hand_Pegs__Crib___Total___W6 %____W7 %
A-4-5-6___8.93+2.24+(-4.25)=6.92____33.4____40.2
2-4-5-6___8.54+2.02+(-3.94)=6.62____29.7____38.1
4-5-6-K___9.76+1.15+(-4.75)=6.16____31.2____37.6

Offense_____L6 %____L7 %
A-4-5-6______42.2____41.4
2-4-5-6______41.1____43.6
4-5-6-K______43.7____44.5

A-4-5-6 is best for expected averages by 0.30pt over 2-4-5-6 and 0.76pt over 4-5-6-K and is best for Win %s by a significant margin and slightly lowest for Loss %s. So I'll select 2-K to discard.

After the 5 cut I'll lead the 4 and play Defense:

Lead___________Dealer's Pegging Pts.
4____________________(-1.96)
A____________________(-2.15)
6____________________(-2.69)
5____________________(-2.89)