November 6, 2019

*** This hand was suggested by jmath714
80-76*  ?
34%
18%
14%
11%
10%
4%
2%
1%
1%
1%
0%
Total votes: 185
Rosemarie44
2052 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:11 AM
If I was dealer the choice of retention and discard would be clear. Since it is not, I am discarding 3-8 (we have 2 of the sevens) and holding this hand for 4 points to start. Although there are fewer cuts for improvement over tossing 3-7, the maximum is higher at 16 points.
Goo says: What would you do as dealer. It is hard choice as none dealer.
Rosemarie44 says: I think that I would toss the suited 7-8 as dealer.
Rosemarie44 says: Tossing 5-5 is a good choice on second thought!
wasa
3019 votes

Joined: November 2014

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:38 AM
Toss 3-8 or 3-7? I'm holding two 5s, so 3-7 (adding to 10) has negative delta. Same with holding two 7s with tossing an 8. Interesting puzzle
Ras2829 says: Hi wasa: Like your thinking. More later.
mrob2199
1436 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:50 AM
Tough hand today!i went back and forth on either 7-8 or 3-5 and finally decided to keep the 7-7-8 convo together and go for the middle card cut-cannot find fault with anyone keeping the 3-5-5-7 or even the 5-5-7-7-although that would be my 3rd choice here
Rosemarie44 says: I am surprised that one would consider 3-5 or 7-8 to dealer at this position?
mrob2199 says: Well Rosemarie if you keep 5/5-7-7 you are looking for a 3 or 6 cut to get you to position-if you don’t get the cut you’re at the mercy of your opponents hand-by keeping the 5-7-7/8 I double my chances of getting into decent position on 4th street-albeit with a more dangerous discard
Rosemarie44 says: Thank you. I understand your reasoning for the riskier discard.
dec
6359 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:02 AM
I am choice number three then. 3-5 or 7-8 sounds to be a six point crib possible, too many for me to accept here. At least a six cut would be two more then 5-7-7-8. Five lead my thought here. dec
james500
3924 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:48 AM
5-8 from me. Two sevens and a second 5 in my hand must create some negative delta.

Just about two-thirds of the possible cut cards are not X cards (30/46).
zeke76
1397 votes

Joined: August 2018

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:27 AM
38 gives us our highest expected net average (hand-crib) and I think position dictates caution rather than aggression. Frankly though 37 gives the same average and is ever so slightly better defensively. Not sure there is a real difference between the two.
mfetchCT425
1400 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:51 AM
Also liked 5-5-7-7 and 5-5-7-8, but thought even with the more dangerous toss, this gave us the most chances to get into good position on 4th street.
mfetchCT425 says: Whoops, looks like I did pick my 3rd choice, lol. Difficult puzzle today and a good one by Jason.
mfetchCT425 says: Whoops, looks like I did pick my 3rd choice, lol. Difficult puzzle today and a good one by Jason.
mfetchCT425 says: My initial choice was 5-7-7-8.
mfetchCT425 says: My initial choice was 5-7-7-8.
Gougie00
5731 votes

Joined: March 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:54 AM
I think I need 10 or more, and will risk the 78. Lets see how foolish this is.
Jazzselke
2587 votes

Joined: March 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 6:13 AM
We need to get as close as possible to Hole 96 to be in dealing position, otherwise we are not likely to win the game anyhow. Not crazy about throwing 35 of course, but we are holding 2 7s.
JRCeagle78
1054 votes

Joined: June 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 6:48 AM
With the 2 sevens in my hand the toss of the 8 was rather straightforward. I kept the six points and split the 5's.

The Ace starter card makes me feel a little better so I only have to drink half the bottle of Peptobismol.
dgergens
938 votes

Joined: January 2018

 
 
 
Wednesday 7:41 AM
Well of course it's the other guy's crib when I get hand like that.
horus93
1282 votes

Joined: December 2017

 
 
 
Wednesday 8:34 AM
Tricky. At -6/+6 with good cards I'm tempted to toss 7-8. But it's so liable to leave us well short of 96. OTOH toss 3-8 seems to leave us a hand that's too weak and misses on many cuts.

This toss is significantly safer than 7-8 and leaves a hand nearly as good.

It's not true that we need to get to 96. Dealer has only a 6 point surplus. We could get into good position by his failing to reach 86, too.
horus93 says: By the same line of reasoning toss 5-8 might be an even better choice even though it's a somewhat worse hand and lower max
JQT says: Very Good Positional Analysis!
Ras2829 says: What are the odds of holding dealer to ten points? According to the late, great DeLynn Colvert, there is 1 in 7.5 chances to do that!
horus93 says: And the odds of cutting to 96 are a lot lower than that. Even if dealer makes it past 86 his surplus could be dented enough to win by defense over the coming deals. OTOH even if we fail to make it to 96 we could get close enough to win by offense anyway.
Ras2829 says: Hi horus93: Not meaning to challenge your thinking as it is more difficult for n/d to reach 4th street CPZ (95-99) than it is to limit dealer to 10 points. N/D chances are 1 of 8 to score 15 points prior to seeing this unhelpful starter card. A defense pegging strategy has the edge by a whisker although I already posted that my choice will be BOLD. After more thought, think should have been thinking optimal pegging strategy, and once seeing the useless starter card, shift down to defense.
JQT
4143 votes

Joined: October 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 8:38 AM
"Yes, Virginia, you can be 'Ahead and Losing' in Cribbage!"

We might appear to be in the lead here, but the Dealer currently has us behind the proverbial eight ball. How can we get out from behind it?

As Pone, we wish to become Next Dealer at or beyond Hole 96, by hook or by crook, but it sure seems a long way from here to there.

If we play it *safe* here, and Toss (3 8), we would have to Cut either a 6 Card or a Trey in order to ignite our hand, and that's only seven cards.

Are we forced to risk either Toss (3 5) or Toss (7 8) today in order to hold Six Points, and more importantly, a better chance to double it? If we Keep (5 7 7 8), then about Sixteen Cuts (333, 6666, 77, 888, 9999) will get us moving; yet if we Keep (3 5 5 7), then more like Thirty-One Cuts (333, 4444, 55, 6666, 77, TTTT, JJJJ, QQQQ, KKKK) will launch us onto Fourth Street.

Granted, Toss (7 8) is probably going to help the Dealer significantly more than Toss (3 5), but since the former allows us to DOUBLE OUR CHANCES of meeting our objective, we could throw caution to the wind and Toss (7 8), come what may! Is there any other way to approach this mess?

Actually, we could Toss (3 7) and maybe find a "Happy Medium" (where is Miss Cleo when you need her most?). This is a very attractive half-measure, and it might work to both give us a little bit of offense while still not throwing away too much into the Enemy Crib. At Hole 80, we probably *still* have enough TIME to handle this in such a delicate manner. So, Let's Keep (5 5 7 8) and Toss (3 7).

After the Ace Cut, we can pretend we have a phone call, and head for the door. Seriously, with only Four Points assured, we are in possible trouble. Still, I might lead a 5 Card and hope that the Dealer has one of these (and NOT two of them!) and is foolish enough to PAIR us! But actually, it may avoid us getting 'trapped' with our 5 Card(s) later.

If our Opponent doesn't stumble badly here as well, we shall have to make up about Ten or Twelve Holes between now and the end of the game, or we might come in second place. We were trailing anyway.
JQT says: When the odds seem overwhelming, in Cribbage or in Life, don't try to solve all of your problems in one fell swoop, especially if there is not the urgency to do so. I talked about the concept of TIME recently, and it fits today's puzzle really well. AT Hole 80, we still have a whole street, and then some, to attempt to "fix" our relative position, and trying to do so all at once and as Pone will usually only tend to make things worse. We are going to become Next Dealer and thus hopefully get our full "Three Counts" to help us. With perhaps three or four deals therefore remaining, let's try to "fix" perhaps one-fourth or maybe one-third of our problems! Given such time, we can apply what I like to call the "Swiss Cheese Approach," which means we'll attempt to "cut a few holes into our problem" instead of trying to fix it all at once. As any rancher can tell you, if you apply too much urgency when trying to herd cattle through a gate or small opening, you will fail; similarly, if you do nothing at all, you will fail as well. However, if you apply SLOW AND STEADY PRESSURE and do so in a controlled and logical fashion, you will often get the job done!
JCM
910 votes

Joined: April 2019

 
 
 
Wednesday 9:23 AM
For me, it seems it's always Opp's crib when I get these sorts of hands. Doesn't this happen to everybody?

Reluctantly, I go for the (3 8) discard, retaining 5-5-7-7. Safest way to go.

At 80-76*, we want to hit 96(as dealer) before Opp. We won't achieve that this hand, so we want to slow Opp. down.

After the A cut, we have 6 pts(86 now) and pegging potential. We could get quite close to 96 as dealer next hand.

So I would peg aggressively. As JQT often suggests, I would venture leading a 5.
Samgash
402 votes

Joined: November 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 11:53 AM
The off chance of cutting into position along with 3-8 for defense. Let’s do it.
Ras2829
5155 votes

Joined: November 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:09 PM
Based on my scant empirical data, discarding 3-7 will give slightly higher combined value (pegs, hand score,less crib score). The 3-7 average drops since we are holding four cards (5-5-7-8) all of which detract from the value of the 3-7 in the approximate amount of .64. Knowing that I have only four points after the cut will choose BOLD pegging strategy, lead the 5S. If that doesn't work for some pegs have still retained 3 different cards including the 5-7 gapper and consecutive 7-8. Not likely to peg enough to matter significantly though ought to make the effort as this board is getting mighty long for me sans pegs. My goal is to deal from 4th street CPZ (95-99). That's a very tall order given the four points in this hand.
Ras2829 says: Don't know if jmath714 will be on the site today. In any case, this was a fine puzzle!
jitwit says: I agree, I enjoyed pondering the tradeoffs of the possible choices!
Coeurdelion
5595 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:18 PM
I think it will be between 3-5S-7-7 (5C-8), 3-5-5-7S (7D-8), (5-5-7-7 (3-8), 5-5-7S-8 (3-7D) or 5C-7-7-8 (3-5S):

3-5S-7-7: 6pts - 6½pts (Schell: 6.30) = -½pt

3-5-5-7S: 6pts - 7½pts (Schell: 7.63) = -1½pts

5-5-7-7: 4pts - 5pts (Schell: 5.05) = -1pt

5-5-7S-8: 4pts - 5pts (Schell: 5.01) = -1pt

5C-7-7-8: 6pts - 6¾pts (Scjell: 6.78) = -¾pt

Potential:

3-5S-7-7: Improves with AAAA, 333, 4444, 55, 6666, 77, 888 + 16xXs = 38 cuts = 38/46 = 82.6% up to 9/10/12pts with 333, 4444, 55, 6666, 77, 888 = 18 cuts.

3-5-5-7S: Improves with 333, 4444, 55, 6666, 77, 888 + 16xXs = 34 cuts = 34/46 = 73.9% up to 10/12pts with 333, 4444, 55, 6666, 77 + 16xXs = 31 cuts.

5-5-7-7: Improves with AAAA, 333, 55, 6666, 77, 888 + 16xXs = 34 cuts = 34/46 = 73.9% up to 8/10/12/16pts with 333, 55, 6666, 77, 888 + 16xXs = 30 cuts.

5-5-7S-8: Improves with 2222, 333, 55, 6666, 77, 888, 9999 + 16xXs = 38 cuts = 38/46 = 82.6% up to 7/8/10/12pts with all cuts.

5C-7-7-8: Improves with AAAA, 2222, 333, 55, 6666, 77, 888, 9999 + 16xXs = 42 cuts = 42/46 = 91.3% up to 10/12/14pts with 333, 6666, 77, 888, 9999 = 16 cuts.

Position:

Dealer is 6pts past the 70pt positional hole and we need 16pts to reach the 96pt positional hole so I'll play Offense to reach this if possible.

Pegging:

I think all these hands will peg well but perhaps 5-5-7-7 the least.

Summary:

3-5S-7-7 has the best starting value and although 5C-7-7-8 has the most cuts for improvement 5-5-7S-8 has 38 cuts for 7-12pts. It starts with ½pt less than 3-5S-7-7 but with 22 cuts scoring 10pts or more I think I'll go for the 3-7D throw.
HalscribCLX
5318 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:23 PM
At 80-76* playing an Offense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

_______________Our
Offense___Hand_Pegs__Crib___Total___W3 %____W4 %
5-5-7-8___7.65+1.26+(-4.15)=4.76____21.5____32.5
5-5-7-7___7.83+1.17+(-4.31)=4.69____22.7____32.1
3-5-5-7S__9.74+1.48+(-6.80)=4.46____32.2____31.7
3-5S-7-7__8.83+1.24+(-5.89)=4.18____26.5____30.7
5C-7-7-8__9.26+1.24+(-6.53)=3.97____28.4____30.3

Offense______L3 %____L4 %
5-5-7-8______26.6____53.0
5-5-7-7______26.6____52.8
3-5-5-7S_____39.0____31.7
3-5S-7-7_____33.0____55.1
5C-7-7-8_____35.5____55.3

5-5-7-8 is best for expected averages by 0.07pt over 5-5-7-7 and although 3-5-5S-7 is very much best for Win %s it is also very high for Loss %s because of the very risky 7-8 discard. So I'll select 3-7D to discard.

After the A cut I'll lead the 5S and play Offense:

Lead______________Our Pegging Pts.
5______________________1.48
7______________________1.24
8______________________1.21
JQT says: That one Loss Percentage (L4%) for (3 5 5 7) says 31.7 but I believe it's a typo and should probably be in line with the other figures of about 55%. Also, I'm still hoping that we can eventually see the Halscrib Results get posted for Monday's Puzzle. Ref: https://www.dailycribbagehand.org/show.php?date=2019/11/04
HalscribCLX says: Correct. L2 % should read 53.4%
jitwit
27 votes

Joined: October 2019

 
 
 
Wednesday 11:47 PM
I went 3-7. 5-5-7-8 since it gets a lot of good cuts and sacrifices only 2 points to mitigate of opponent getting a massive crib.
jitwit says: mitigate risk*
HalscribCLX
5318 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 2:45 AM
For 11/4/19. I thought I'd posted these. inept operator error:

At 116-116* playing a Bold strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages (ignoring the crib) and Win %s are:

_______________Our
Offense___Hand_Pegs_Total_____Win %
A-2-4-K___4.09+1.87=5.96______91.4
A-2-6-7___3.74+1.96=5.70______81.1
2-4-6-7___3.83+1.54=5.37______79.1
A-4-7-K___3.83+1.41=5.24______85.3
A-4-6-K___3.85+1.22=5.07______86.1
A-2-4-6___3.26+1.74=5.00______85.4
2-6-7-K___3.59+1.24=4.83______72.8
A-4-6-7___2.98+1.80=4.78______82.6

A-2-4-K is best for hand and pegging expected averages by 0.26pt.and also for Win %s by a significant margin. So I'll select 6-7 to discard.

After the A cut I'll lead the A and play Defense;

Lead______Dealer's Pegging Pts.___Win %___Loss %
2_______________(-2.09)___________83.4_____8.6
4_______________(-2.15)___________82.2_____8.5
A_______________(-2.26)___________84.2_____8.3
K_______________(-2.31)___________70.0____15.9

Although the 2 lead minimises Dealer's pegging the Ace lead has the highest chance of Winning and lowest chance of Losing so I'll lead the A.