March 25, 2024
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Total votes: 295 |
horus93 | I went with 5J; 77 is .1 better in expected averages but I like this for defensive pegging. The flush is not far off. |
MA2906Bptrs 198 votes Joined: October 2023 |
    Monday 3:05 AM
I went with 77 |
Gougie00 5734 votes Joined: March 2008 |
    Monday 3:12 AM
I tossed the 77. If I knew the 7 would be cut ... SallyAnn3 says: CONGRATS on GOLD in Saturday's eCribbage tourney, Greg!
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dec 6362 votes Joined: April 2008 |
    Monday 3:37 AM
My opponent found one of those sevens. Now 8-A to put in the crib. I like the ten potential in the main hand. dec |
zeke76 1400 votes Joined: August 2018 |
    Monday 3:57 AM
Considered the flush, but I want to keep those 7s together. |
horus93 1282 votes Joined: December 2017 |
    Monday 4:03 AM
Well, this time I went with the flush lol. And I'm quite wrong as it's 0.4 or 0.5 south of 5J and 77. Not sure what I meant in the OP about A577 being better defense than A5TJ, if anything it's probably a bit worse...
I'll point out that this is technically an exception to the rules of thumb, you'd expect 5J or the flush to be best. But as MtE put it in a similar puzzle recently tossing 77 is just the "natural" way to handle this kind of hand (paraphrasing). horus93 says: With the excellent cut, I'm going full Colvert i.e. heavy defense. Looking at the numbers yesterday, seems too close to call to me, though the bot does seem again to (imo) overvalue the pegging of a hand like A257. But starting with weak cards, throwing a heavy balk like QK, for all its boom/bustiness, is pretty defensible. Interesting that the bot thinks A5QK only outpegs 25QK by 7 hundredths. Of course one problem with its analysis is that it's thinking primarily (with the exception of its opaque w/l% calculations) about Our Pegs + Our Hand - Oppo's Crib; but a lot of people were sort of thinking about both our pegs and pegs given up and trying to weigh the two. horus93 says: I guess all that can be said for the flush is - 1) it's more reliable at the lower targets (it improves on every cut after all); but then again it's significantly worse at the higher targets so I don't think that counts for much (e.g. it hits min 15 13% of the time vs 25% tossing 77, or 21% tossing 5J); 2) it might be a better offensive pegger than A5TJ... but hard to weigh the TJ X trap vs the greater diversity of holding a seven. More confident that it's a better offensive pegger than A77T. 3) It's probably the best defensive pegger, but not by a huge margin or anything. |
sharp21 183 votes Joined: January 2010 |
    Monday 4:23 AM
Kept the flush for greatest number of starting points |
glmccuskey 4105 votes Joined: April 2011 |
    Monday 4:33 AM
Nice dozen in my hand with the 5-J in the crib. |
JQT 4143 votes Joined: October 2008 |
    Monday 4:53 AM
We could go with the FLUSH and Toss (7c Tc), or we might stash a PAIR via Toss (7 7), or we could perhaps surprisingly stow the Touching Cards of Toss (T J), and of course there is always the Traditional Toss (5 J), which incidentally is "suited" 🕵🏼♂️ here, so no Twenty-Nine-Point Crib is possible). Let's examine each of these ideas:
Keep (A 5 7 7) and Toss (T J) is the most surprising ❗ find, as it can reach a Hand of Eight Points or more after Seventeen Cuts (AAA, 3333, 6666, 77, 8888), and the surprise is probably two-fold, in that not only is it the best Pegging Hand, but it entails a Crib Value of around 4.5 Points (although it's just considered an "Also-Ran" Dealer Discard, RAS places it about a Quarter Point HIGHER than other sources); Keep (Ah 5h 7h Jh) and Toss (7c Tc) is an obvious idea, and not only does it begin with a nice FLUSH at a value of Six Points, it also stands to 🌱 grow and become Eight Points or more after EVERY Cut, but almost astonishingly, not a Single Cut can add more than Four Points, so it can never exceed Ten Points! And in addition, it involves a weak Crib Value of around Three Points (although once again, RAS places it about a Half Point HIGHER); Keep (A 7 7 T) and Toss (5 J) looks to be the more traditional approach, and yet it can reach a Hand of Eight Points or more after only Nine Cuts (AAA, 77, 8888), but it does allow us to get the most "energy" ⚡ into our Crib, as Toss (5 J) has a Crib Value of around Seven Points; Keep (A 5 T Jh) and Toss (7 7) is what's left standing if we rule out those other ideas, and it's not a poor choice since it can reach a Hand of Eight Points or more after Twenty-One Cuts (4444, 555, 9999, TTT, JJJ, QQQQ), and it allows us to get some fairly good "energy" into our Crib, as Toss (7 7) has a Crib Value of nearly Six Points. Let's eschew both the FLUSH and Toss (5 J) and Toss (7 7) and place the 'PEAR' 🍐 in our Crib today. After the quixotic 7 Card Cut, we now still have just Four Points in our Hand, but with prospects for an excellent Crib. A good bonus 💲 💰 question might be: Knowing that a 7 Card Cut shall occur, how would this affect your decision? In a cursory glance, I think Toss (5 J) might now rule the day, but Toss (T J) may be chosen by some, and even Toss (7 7) with its very hopeful Crib prospects might also get a few takers! World News Thought -- It's very sad about the terrorist attack that occurred in the Crocus City Hall Concert in Russia last weekend: If an incident like this happened continuously every single day for ten years in a row, it would almost equal the number of deaths (thus far) from the Special Military Operation. 🤔 Wordle 1,010 4/6 (Guess Two Fizzled; even "XYLYL" 🧪 would have been better!) 🟩⬛🟨⬛⬛ ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛ ⬛⬛🟩⬛🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 Eolus619 says: JQT..your recurring icon malady..and now combined with including words like eschew ...it is , however, a perfectly good word …glad to have you back posting your wide ranging subject matter Annabella says: I like the Wordle hints, saved me 30 minutes last Saturday. Thanks! JQT says: Hi Annabella! That's a lovely name. A few years ago, I played Wordle every day for over a year with 100% success, but I'm not a NYTimes subscriber, and I don't save my stats, and the site erased them a few times, so I quit playing except every now and then. I never wish to spoil the puzzle for anyone, and it's really hard to reveal a clue that almost doesn't help at all, but that is my goal. Ask Bruce (Eolus619, above you) and he'll tell you: my clues are often quite clueless! My best clues only make sense AFTER you complete the puzzle, and yet meanwhile either do not help, or make it harder! (Maybe I should run for Governor?) Thanks for the nice comment. And here's an icon 🌄 for Bruce. |
Jazzselke 2587 votes Joined: March 2009 |
    Monday 4:55 AM
I have studied this hand in the past, although without a flush option. Keeping the sevens with an ace seems beneficial, and 5J is the third best throw to the crib. 5J can be considered like 23: if it's a close call, very often it's the go-to answer. |
mrob2199 1439 votes Joined: February 2009 |
    Monday 5:29 AM
As Dan stated above it’s a very close call but I like this pegging configuration with the A-if pone leads a K we can play the 10 on it and hopefully use our ace for the 31,enabling us to save our 5 for the next pegging sequence-another possible benefit is a 9 cut potentially being a bingo cut for us |
MiketheExpert 1125 votes Joined: April 2021 |
    Monday 5:56 AM
Up to 4 possibilities could all be considered, and I think I like them in the following order (from best to worst). Toss (7 7) seems like the natural break in this situation, leaving behind a hand which could improve significantly on many cuts, and would seem to potentially get a nice boost in the crib from the mid-card cuts (although the "unexpected 7" as witnessed today, chops that starting hand down all the way from a dozen to 4 pts - still tough to make this up in the crib even with the known triplet!). Next may be the surprising flush which begins with 6 points, even though it suffers from the poor (7 10) toss, it does improve on EVERY cut, and is a nice flexible hand which may perform better BOTH on offense and defense during the pegging. Next, and maybe surprisingly to some, would come the (10 J) throw AHEAD of (5 J), which I would put in a narrow 4th place today. (A 5 7 7) has a lot of latent hand energy (it improves on every cut except for a 4), and connecting cards (10 J) in the crib, although not quite as good as the likes of (6 7) or (3 4), often have the ability to "grow" quite well. Although (5 J) has the best technical crib throw of all these choices, the resultant hand leaves the most to be desired in my opinion, MiketheExpert says: *(sorry, clicked on me before I finished my thought. ) as the pair just doesn't seem to mesh well with that 2-card 11 (A-10), and limits both cut help, while leaving us with an uncomfortable pegging hand. MiketheExpert says: Thinking again, I might reverse the order of (5 J) and (10 J), since the (5 J) is worth so much in the crib, but I think these 2 are quite close overall. JQT says: Very good synopsis. One handy way to help examine and rule out the FLUSH today is to analyze the discard candidates as if there was no FLUSH present (you can see this on the C. Liam Brown site, if say you simply substitute a 7d for the 7h), and in this particular scenario, Toss (7 T) now comes in last place, thus it may not be a powerful way to 'split' this arrangement once the FLUSH actually is present. |
wasa 3021 votes Joined: November 2014 |
    Monday 6:28 AM
Every cut helps the flush, so minimum 8 in the hand plus at least one peg puts me in a good position after first deal. Not a huge fan of pairs to my own crib (except 5-5 of course) but if I had to toss a pair, 3-3 or 7-7 is a good choice.
Cut gives me 10 in the hand plus at least 2 in the crib so I'm looking pretty good after first deal |
SallyAnn3 908 votes Joined: March 2020 |
    Monday 6:47 AM
My priority was putting the 5 in the crib, and the flush wasn't worth it.
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sterno 455 votes Joined: December 2020 |
    Monday 8:46 AM
Agree with SallyAnn3, no flush and 7-7 to crib |
james500 3927 votes Joined: June 2013 |
    Monday 11:52 AM
Not much to add at this late stage. J5 would've been my second choice. |
wyodubster@gmail.com 50 votes Joined: December 2023 |
    Monday 12:09 PM
I liked the 7-7 to my crib more than holding onto the flush. SallyAnn3 says: Welcome, wyodubster :) Eolus619 says: yes indeed …welcome..keep posting ! |
Inushtuk1 1490 votes Joined: July 2016 |
    Monday 12:32 PM
The (7-7) is one of the better one star tosses. Defense to the lead. See Rob's post above. Inushtuk1 says: Would love to try A-5-7-7(10-J) elsewhere on the board, on Offense. |
RubyTuesday 915 votes Joined: January 2019 |
    Monday 3:37 PM
5 J to my crib, keeping the 7s and A in hand. Nice turn up. |
Coeurdelion 5597 votes Joined: October 2007 |
    Monday 4:33 PM
Do we keep A-5-7H-J (7C-10), A-7-7-10 (5-J) or A-5-10-J (7-7) or perhaps even A-5-7-7 (10-J)?:
A-5-7H-J: 6pts + 3¼pts (Schell: 3.23) = 9¼pts A-7-7-10: 4pts + 7pts (Schell: 7.00) = 11pts A-5-10-J: 4pts + 5¾pts (Schell: 5.92) = 9¾pts A-5-7-7: 4pts + 4¾pts (Schell: 4.61) = 8¾pts Potential: A-5-7H-J: Improves with AAA, 2222, 3333, 4444, 555, 6666, 77, 8888, 9999 + 14xXs = 46 cuts = 46/46 = 100.0% up to 9/10pts with 555, 6666, 77, JJJ = 12 cuts. Plus 9 heart cuts for 1pt extra for the flush and 1pt extra for his nob = 2x9/46 = 0.39pt. A-7-7-10: Improves with AAA, 4444, 555, 77, 8888, 101010 = 19 cuts = 9/46 = 41.3% up to 8/12pts with AAA, 77, 8888 = 9 cuts. A-5-10-J: Improves with AAA, 4444, 555, 9999 + 14xXs = 28 cuts = 28/46 = 60.9% up to 8/9/10pts with 4444, 555, 9999, 101010, JJJ, QQQQ = 21 cuts. Plus 9 heart cuts for 1pt extra for his nob = 9/46 = 0.20pt. A-5-7-7: Improves with AAA, 2222, 3333, 555, 6666, 77, 8888, 9999 + 14xXs = 42 cuts = 42/46 = 91.3% up to 8/10/12pts with AAA, 2222, 3333, 6666, 77, 8888 = 21 cuts. Position: As First Dealer positional hole is at 8pts so I'll play Defense but try to reach the average 16pts or more safely. Pegging: I think the flush will probably peg best. Summary: A-7-7-10 is best for starting value by 1¼pts over A-5-10-J but A-7-7-10 has the least number of cuts for improvement and only 9 cuts for 8/12pts. The flush has guaranteed improvement and 12 cuts for 9/10pts plus it has an extra 0.39pt. potential for a heart cut. Also it should peg best so I think it will catch up the 1¾pts on A-7-7-10 therefore I'll throw the 7C-10. |
HalscribCLX 5320 votes Joined: February 2008 |
    Monday 4:33 PM
At 0*-0 playing a Defense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:
_______________Pone's Defense___Hand_Pegs____Crib_Total____W9 %____W10 % A-5-10-J___6.63+(-2.07)+5.79=10.35____37.6____50.5 A-7-7-10___5.39+(-2.07)+6.77=10.09____35.1____49.4 A-7-7-J____5.59+(-2.13)+6.52= 9.98____35.4____49.9 A-5-7H-J___8.83+(-1.96)+2.97= 9.84____37.1____50.2 A-5-7-7____7.09+(-2.22)+4.32= 9.19____34.8____48.5 Defense_______L9 %____L10 % A-5-10-J_______25.7____23.7 A-7-7-10_______24.6____24.3 A-7-7-J________24.4____23.9 A-5-7H-J_______26.7____24.5 A-5-7-7________25.5____25.3 After the 7 cut I'll play Defense to the lead. Inushtuk1 says: Hi Hal. Can you give us your expected averages playing an Offense strategy please? Ras2829 says: HalscribCLX says it all for me as dealer of first hand of a game. Iushtuk1, just in case the cribbot does not respond, ran a query on Cribbage Prof (66*-62) choosing offense. The 7-10 has the edge by .2 (3.34 pegs+8.83 hand score, and 2.97 crib value = 15.14). The 7-7 shows combined values of (2.52 pegs+6.63 hand score, and 5.79 crib value = 14.94). |