August 22, 2019

*** This hand was suggested by Andy (muesli64)
117*-117  ?
32%
28%
17%
9%
5%
3%
1%
1%
0%
Total votes: 186
Rosemarie44
2052 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Thursday 3:09 AM
This selection of cards came to me during Yoga this morning! So much for statistics in this decision. End games are very challenging for me as I don't often find myself at this position with 4 and 6 player cribbage.
Coeurdelion says: I've never played 6 player crib! What's it like?
Guest says: There are two groups of three players. Deal 5 cards to each person. We all toss one card to who ever is the dealer of that hand - so the crib has 6 cards . We choose the best 4 cards of these 6 cards and must use the starter card of course to add up our points.. Sometimes there are some really large cribs. We have six players usually every week. We draw cards to determine who we will partner with.
mrob2199
1433 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Thursday 3:37 AM
Not the ideal pegging choice here but definitely 1 of each if pone plays a picture for his lead card I suggest putting the king on it-at this point you have to be willing to give up 3 to get 2-even before the fortuitous jack cut-the picture lead should indicate pone doesn’t have an ideal pegging hand,so he might have to dump a picture or a 5-which we have covered respectively with our ace and 6
Guest says: Yes...am in the 9%,for the same reasons. S :)
dec
6356 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 3:53 AM
Great cut. Now we try a few things . Three for two, 4-5-6 or thirty one ,last likely two goes. And the lead is... dec
JQT
4143 votes

Joined: October 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 4:12 AM
This is an extremely difficult position, because our average pegging as Dealer is 3.5 points.

This means we might find ourselves at Hole 120-and-a-half when Pone gets to enjoy First Hand Show and "Eat Our Lunch" right in front of us.

Since we were dealt one Jack, we now have about a 6.5% chance of cutting a Jack, which would put us at Hole 119 to start the pegging, and if we could somehow know that this would happen, we would only need to peg Two Holes as opposed to Four Holes, a whole different story. But we know nothing of the sort ... yet!

Because if we only needed to peg Two Holes instead of Four Holes, I might prefer Keep (A 4 J K) today, because these are our 'most unique' four cards (Pone is least likely to have been dealt a 6 Card). But while we are trying to perform our discard, we only know that NOT having a Jack Cut is over 93% more likely to occur.

Needing to peg Four Holes, it will probably help us to hold at least some variety, along with a Magic Eleven. These "Elevens" consist of a few variations of two-card (A X) and a three-card (A 4 6) today, and while either one of these is a reliable way to score (31-2), it's vital to note that we need to peg TWICE THIS AMOUNT. Drats!

And that's why a VARIETY, along with a three-card Magic Eleven, fits the bill for us (at least, prior to knowing the Cut). Thus, I like either Keep (A 4 6 J) or Keep (A 4 6 K) as candidate hands today. We can't keep'em both, however.

If we just retain our four lowest-ranking cards in the form of Keep (A 4 6 6), we are holding a lot of cards that Pone is unlikely to have been dealt (those two 6 Cards), as well as holding fewer unique cards that Pone is more likely to have been dealt; namely: the Ace, the 4 Card, the Jack, and the King. What to do?

And thus, besides almost dreading the certainty of losing here, we know very little. In a bad process of elimination, let's Keep (A 4 6 K) and try to *stumble our way* toward Victory as best we can.

And of course, just when things look as bleak as possible ... we Cut a Jack! Now, lo and behold: we are half way "home" and sitting in the Driver's Seat! (Or is it the Catbird's Seat?)

We have 19 leads "covered" (AAA, 444, 5555, 66, 9999, KKK) and that's 19 DIV 45 equals 0.422 or over 42% chances of winning after just the first card played by Pone!

Things indeed are looking UP, and we should win this game a surprising amount of the time! Who knew?!
JQT says: If we cannot score on the Lead Card by Pone, I am inclined to try to unload the more "common" 6 Card first today (unless it forms an easy RUN sequence), since it's part of our three-card Magic Eleven. Pone will have had a High-Bias towards holding a "relatively safe" King today, and thus this card could become a rare "goal getter" for us during the latter stages of the pegging!
Ras2829 says: HI JQT: Does the "sweet 16" lose some of its sweetness when limited to two cards?
Guest says: This is reminiscent of those infamous 1978 lyrics by one Jim Steinman, words that were so well sung by "Meat Loaf" alongside the powerhouse Ellen Foley in the song titled, "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" that culminate in the lines: "I can see paradise by the dashboard light / Ain't no doubt about it we were doubly blessed / 'Cause we were barely seventeen and we were barely dressed." And so, what was the question? Oh, that "Sweet Sixteen" (or "Sweet 'Barely Seventeen' " as it were, I think it may be helpful, but prior to the Cut, we need Four Points and not merely Two Points, so in addition to Elevens and Sixteens, we are also having to be concerned with 'snagging' points any way we can today, with either (15-2s) or PAIRS ("PEARS" i.e., other 'low-hanging' fruit of any sort), etc. And while we know three-card variants of both Magic Elevens and Sweet Sixteens can often work more reliably, as the Dealer, a two-card variation *will* still work. And most importantly: Two Cards is HALF of our hand, and Two Points is only Half of our Goal today! Because we need even more than to pull off one successful 'heist' here. But more to your point: "Sweet Sixteens" involve essentially the 'trap' or isolation of the commonly-held 5 Card, which gets us to a total of Twenty-One and then with any Ten Card (or "X") it yields Thirty-One. The bias for Pone to hold a 5 Card is certainly less today, but it's not entirely gone, since Pone does wish to "cover" Four Holes with First Hand Show. And yet if Pone does not need a 5 Card to reach those Four Holes, Pone is not likely to be too motivated to retain such a card. But Pone is also even more biased to hold defensive pegging cards today, if at all possible, as thus with a hand such as (2 3 5 5 J K), we have to ponder whether Pone would hold the (I think) riskier (2 3 J K) or would Pone hold (2 5 5 K) or (2 5 J K) in this instance? Pone is often twisted and contorted into a dark corner concerning what to hold onto and what to discard when needing to peg ultra-defensively and yet still needing to "cover" a certain number of points, and so a card such as a King becomes a high-bias defensive card and may 'drag along' with it a much lower-bias card such as a 5 Card out of necessity. Therefore, I believe that trying to win such an endgame here as the Dealer, also from Four Holes distant, becomes an exercise in getting into the mind of our Opponent or "Pone" and trying to "suss out" his or her ideas and/or intentions. If I think about it more, perhaps I'll come up with something better, but until then, maybe: "Let me sleep on it..." And I'd be entirely remiss if I didn't include a link to the original version of that Meat Loaf Song: https://youtu.be/C11MzbEcHlw
JQT says: Yes, I'll admit it: that is my chatter, above . . .
JQT says: There is clearly a change in our tactics once we see the Jack Cut: Now, any way we can 'conjure up' Two Holes will WIN this game for us as Dealer, and so playing a card FIRST that 'stays within the confines' of both our Magic Eleven and our Sweet Sixteen should boost our winning chances considerably ... yeah, that's what I meant to say! : - )
james500
3921 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Thursday 4:26 AM
I'll try the "one of each" tactic. Probably too late in the game for either the K-A eleven, or the K-6 sixteen to play a role though.

Great cut!

K reply to a led 4,5,7,T,J,Q or K.
6 reply to a led 3,6,8 or 9.
4 reply to a led 4.
A reply to a led A.
james500 says: * oops. No King reply to a 4, would pair it. 4 reply to a 2.
JRCeagle78 says: In regards to your 6 reply to a 3, unless you are sure that the last 6 is a dead card, 15-4 can win the game for pone.
Gougie00
5728 votes

Joined: March 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 4:47 AM
One of the each again. My friend Jack showed up.
zeke76
1394 votes

Joined: August 2018

 
 
 
Thursday 5:16 AM
So I get and agree with the logic of A46 plus a face card. Why the K and not the J?
ILostMyJob says: I'm with you! Plus, a lucky nobs helps since we have to peg out and can't let pone count their hand. I also feel like pone is more likely to hold a J than a K, which is a pairing oppty in the pegging.
zeke76 says: Pone being more likely to hold a J was my thinking as well.
usacoder
968 votes

Joined: August 2019

 
 
 
Thursday 5:17 AM
I like what I put into my crib.
Rosemarie44 says: Hi usacoder: Welcome to the site. Good to see a new face.
Ras2829 says: Hi usacoder: Are you a usa coder? No code here. Welcome aboard and enjoy the ride!
JCM
910 votes

Joined: April 2019

 
 
 
Thursday 7:20 AM
We must peg 4, so 1 of each. I prefer keeping the J over the K since Opp. may be holding a J to help him on his first count.
After the J cut, we only need to peg 2 more points. If we can't score on his lead, I would(like JQT) play the 6, keeping A-4-J for possible scoring plays later.
The seniors' club where I play weekly has a "house rule" where if dealer is within the final 5 points of the game, he does not get 2 points on the cut of a Jack.
JRCeagle78
1054 votes

Joined: June 2016

 
 
 
Thursday 7:59 AM
At this point of the game, "the right Jack" is of no importance to the dealer. It is more important to the pone as he/she has first count. Since he/she is more likely to keep a jack in his hand, this is a pegging dilemma I wish to avoid.

With the multi card spread the dealer should be able to stay out of trouble with a great chance to peg the way to victory. THANK YOU JACK !!
wasa
3016 votes

Joined: November 2014

 
 
 
Thursday 8:06 AM
I did not go for "one of each", but instead kept the 4 lowest cards. Maybe I have blinders on, but RAS has drilled into me that face cards are worthless for pegging. Cut makes me feel good.
Ras2829 says: Hi wasa: If making the assumption that n/d has enough to count out, this would have been my choice. I was hoping that n/d might have 2-3 points and would hold the Jack in hopes of picking up another point by matching suit of starter card.
wasa says: Thanks RAS!
horus93
1281 votes

Joined: December 2017

 
 
 
Thursday 8:28 AM
Pone might well be holding a 5 at 117 so I like keeping a 6-4, and he's pretty unlikely to hold a J anyway.
horus93 says: I probably shouldn't assume he's unlikely to hold a J. My gut is just telling me that in many cases pone will be able to keep 4 points without keeping a "risky card" like J that dealer is often gunning for, but maybe my gut is telling me lies.
zeke76 says: I understand now. The no J is assuming a quality of thinking by pone that is a couple steps beyond my analysis.
RubyTuesday
911 votes

Joined: January 2019

 
 
 
Thursday 10:33 AM
Like wasa I chose the four lowest cards seeing as the points in this hand will come from pegging.
HalscribCLX
5315 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 2:33 PM
At 117*-117 the chances of Our Pegging Out and Pone Pegging Out are:

Optimal_______Our Peg Out %______Pone Peg Out %
A-4-6-J___________12.7________________0.7
A-4-6-6___________12.1________________4.6
A-4-6-K___________11.7________________0.7
A-6-6-J___________11.6________________1.9
A-6-6-K___________11.2________________1.9
4-6-6-K___________10.7________________3.8
4-6-6-J___________10.6________________3.9
6-6-J-K____________7.8________________5.0
4-6-J-K____________7.6________________2.7
A-4-J-K____________6.9________________2.7
A-6-J-K____________6.7________________5.6

A-4-6-J has the best chance of pegging Out at 12.7% and minimizes Pones chance of Pegging Out to 0.7%. So I'll 6D-K to discard.

After the J cut I'll play Defense to the lead.
Coeurdelion
5592 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Thursday 2:35 PM
I'll keep the 3-card magic eleven and the J.
Ras2829
5151 votes

Joined: November 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 4:08 PM
Needing four pegs to win, will hold four different cards. Holding the Jack since n/d might retain a Jack in low scoring hand believing that an extra point might make the difference. Chances not good with one on the deck. Believe a Jack would more likely be held by n/d than a King given a choice. The Jack is also more likely since it connects with cards on either side whereas King can only connect with cards of lower denomination. After the Jack cut, now needing two pegs will play on an A, 4, 5, 6, 9, or J lead. Otherwise will play off.
JQT says: My thoughts regarding holding the King (as opposed to the Jack) were also influenced by the fact that if Pone did hold a three-point hand with a Jack as possible "insurance," such a hand would typically be a RUN. And yet Pone would probably rather not hold a RUN in the first place, in order to peg defensively. Maybe if forced? If, however, Pone had a 'static' Two Points prior to the Cut, then not only would the "Right Jack" only add just One Point and do so just 25% of the time, but it would perhaps not be as fruitful as holding some "other" card and seeking those additional Two Points from either the Cut, or from the Pegging. And so, the high-bias of holding a King as a defensive pegging resource added up to be more (at least in my feeble mind) than the potential helpfulness of a Jack. Well, the computer (and several strong players) disagree with me, and so I know what you must be thinking: they must all be wrong! Seriously, I just wanted to fill you in a bit more on the 'Logic for Holding the King' today.
Ras2829 says: Hi jQT: Don't often think "they must all be wrong." One of the strengths of this site are opposing choices. Always appreciate those who have some rationale for their decisions and a willingness to share that.
zeke76 says: I must say I’ve found the king vs. jack discussion interesting. Mostly because it shows me that my thinking is too shallow.
mrob2199 says: I think if given a choice Pone will keep a king over a jack-let’s say pone holds 6-7-8-he has his 5 points to win so now he has to avoid the dealer pegging 4-obviously the jack is vulnerable to more 3 card runs than a king,so the percentages greatly favor keeping the king as a defensive pegging card
JQT says: Yes, good discussion! If it wasn't clear, of course my utterance of, "they must all be wrong" was just made in jest. (Perhaps just most of them ... or certainly some of them ... might have been ..... oh, it's becoming clear that I shouldn't attempt humor more than once in any twenty-four-hour period!)